P.B.F.: Is the business traveler today pretty much the same burger-and-fries guy he was 20 years ago?
 
T.Z.: There’s a big difference. Number one, he’s more sophisticated in his tastes. Two, he’s eating better food because it’s available. Chefs today use fresh market produce as well as all sorts of foreign ingredients. And they’re quite creative—and competitive—when they prepare dishes.

P.B.F.: But with business on a fast track these days, who has time to dawdle over—and really appreciate—great dishes?

T.Z.: Many business travelers make time for quality dining, particularly upper echelon executives. There’s a real appreciation of good food.

P.B.F.: Any examples?

T.Z.: Many American travelers by now have eaten in France and Italy and learned what real French and Italian food is supposed to be like. Jet travel has taken some business travelers to dozens of countries and exposed them to all sorts of new dishes and tastes—for instance, exotic Thai dishes or Brazilian grilled meats. 

P.B.F.: With multinational companies operating all over the globe—in Hong Kong, Sydney, Mumbai, Dubai, Moscow—business travelers get a culinary education that would make a food connoisseur turn green with jealousy.

T.Z.: Think of the 24-hour Food Network and dozens of other TV food shows that seduce business travelers into broadening what they eat. Though I love a good burger and fries, the range of dining options today is simply staggering.

CHANGING LIFESTYLES 

P.B.F.: Restaurants have a hard time keeping up with changing tastes and lifestyles, don’t they?

T.Z.: The demand for good restaurants and take-out food has gone up exponentially partly because women have moved into the work force and no longer have time to cook at home as much.

P.B.F.: Restaurants are doing a big business with couples who make up two-income families.

T.Z.: Yes, the great growth in the industry is what I call the BATH segment. That stands for “Better Alternatives To Home.” These restaurants have three criteria: homey, hearty food of all types, the casualness of an extra den, and modest prices. In fact, it can cost more to buy the ingredients and cook at home than go to one of these restaurants, let alone find time to cook when you’re tired after work.

P.B.F.: It certainly is a nationwide trend—eating out rather than slaving in the kitchen. Both are fun. But each has its place in today’s lifestyle.

T.Z.: Yes. You’ll find an abundant list of reasonably priced places to eat in all our guides. The $15 to $20 lunch and dinner restaurants. They’re usually local and good but don’t have the money to advertise much.

P.B.F.: What else is driving the economics of dining out?

T.Z.: Companies pay you to work late. They cover your meal costs if you stay until—say—8:30. The employee passes along the cost to his company, or in the case of law, accounting and public relations firms, the cost is passed on to the client. 

CELEBRITY CHEFS

P.B.F.: Dining now goes well beyond having a satisfactory meal.  Right?
 
T.Z.: The whole attitude toward food has changed. There’s been a revolution at every level—starting with the ingredients.   Then look at who’s in the kitchen. People who cooked used to be mostly foreigners—it was a dirty job in some ways—but now being a chef is a highly respected profession. 
 
P.B.F.: That’s an understatement. It’s now a major career choice.
 
T.Z.: Yes, top chefs today are celebrities. Alice Waters and her Chez Panisse in Berkeley—one of the earliest stars. Thomas Keller’s French Laundry in the Napa Valley. Jean Georges Vongerichten with restaurants all over the globe. Emeril Lagasse walking audiences through recipes on the Food Network. Wolfgang Puck and his Spagos. Joel Robuchon—he just opened one of his casual counter restaurants at the New York Four Seasons. It’s mind-boggling—the number of top chefs these days.  

P.B.F.: It’s amazing how Americans happily put top chefs on a pedestal and pack their high-priced restaurants, reserving a table weeks in advance.   

T.Z.: Yes, the star chefs make headlines. The media is all over them. They’re on the speaker’s circuit. It’s a rare celebrity  chef who hasn’t come out with one or more cookbooks. In their food circles the C.I.A. is only one thing—the Culinary Institute of America—and it has more credibility than the other C.I.A. 
 
P.B.F.: What’s your take on the tons of money the best-known chefs make?

T.Z.: They can make more than the restaurant owner or general manager—if it’s a hotel restaurant. Some of their salaries are up there in the six digits.

 
THOSE AIRLINE SNACKS

P.B.F.: What about much-maligned airline food? After all, in the best of times, international flights used to be first-class restaurants in the sky. The supersonic Concorde, for example.

T.Z.: Airline food is now practically non-existent, as we all know.  Snacks and not much more. We’ve surveyed what business and leisure travelers think of all aspects of airline service, and food always gets the lowest rating. And that applies even to first and business class.

P.B.F.: But in fairness to airlines, how can you serve a fresh, expertly cooked meal at 37,000 feet? Mimi Sheraton, one of the savviest food critics, said sympathetically that airlines were too ambitious in trying to deliver fancy meals in flight. Keep it simpler, she said.

T.Z.: If a flight is domestic and only two or three hours, most people would just as soon have a Coke and a snack. But if the flight is long enough, you have to do more for passengers.

P.B.F.: Any airlines you think are doing a better job?

T.Z.: Several international carriers—Cathay Pacific, Emirates and Singapore. All three do a pretty good job with food.

WEIGHT WATCHING

P.B.F.: Dining out on the road—at elaborate lunches and dinners—is the bane of business travelers who worry over gaining weight. How do you keep in shape? You’re a big man.

T.Z.: Exercise. People flying a lot need to limber up, move their body, walk up and down on planes. You simply need to keep exercising.

P.B.F.: Any recipe for holding down weight?

T.Z.: Do what you do every day of the year, if you care about weight and health. Not dieting. Just be sensible. Not too much bread and sweets and go easy on the liquor.

LIKE A BLACK BOOK

P.B.F.: Business travelers on a tight budget feel frustrated trying to find good reasonably priced places to eat. Restaurants get more expensive every year.  

T.Z.: Not at all. Restaurant inflation has been less than the spike in the CPI—Consumer Price Index—over the years. Bistros, upscale diners, pasta places and other modestly priced ethnics represent some 90 percent of restaurants out there. 

P.B.F.: You mean Chinese, Indian, Greek, Mexican restaurants and the like?

T.Z.: Yes. They’re generally lower in price. They’re not big and fancy or worth a review by The New York Times.

P.B.F.: Where can I find the terrific out-of-the-way bistros that belong in a little black book? Where the food is unbeatable, the d?cor especially appealing, and the price is right?

T.Z.: Look in the front of our city guides. Our Surveys include  “Bargain Prix Fixe Menus” for lunch and dinner and lists of what we call “the best bang for the buck” restaurants. Of course, any good hotel concierge can help steer you to the best local places.

P.B.F.: Aren’t these the places you mostly learn about by word of mouth?

T.Z.: That’s what our Surveys do. We organize the word-of-mouth restaurants recommended by avid local diners. We anticipate—or accelerate—those recommendations with names, addresses, phone numbers and comments from our legion of ordinary diners who tell us what they think.

P.B.F.: Even so, many biz travelers are stunned by main courses that cost something like $22 to $35 or more. To keep the tab down, you have to eliminate appetizers and desserts. What’s your bottom-line advice on cost-cutting?

T.Z.: Simply that there’s more opportunity than ever these days to feed well for less money—if you look around. 

MACHO DINING

P.B.F.: Some restaurants are not only expense-account places but also favorites of certain companies and industries. In New York publishing and entertainment bigwigs book tables at Michael’s and celebrities from Wall Street and the TV networks fill the tables at Four Seasons. Can you name some others where the top brass like to socialize and talk business?

T.Z.: Sure, there are favorites. In Seattle the people from Boeing are big downtown diners who like steaks and more traditional dishes while Microsoft executives lean toward lettuce and lighter dishes—more modern overall in tastes.

P.B.F.: Are steaks and business travelers inseparable?

T.Z.: Business travelers can find more interesting foods than steak, but a lot of people just like steaks. I can eat steak anywhere—including at home.

P.B.F.: Do you cook, Tim?

T.Z.: Nina is the chef in our household—she attended Le Cordon Bleu. I’m the grill man and am proud of my steaks.

ROADSIDE FOOD

P.B.F.: What about chain restaurants and fast-food parlors on the road?

T.Z.: The chains bought themselves a monopoly along the nation’s highways and super-highways—with prices to match. By and large, the food’s not very good.

P.B.F.: Where’s a business traveler supposed to eat?

T.Z.: Eat where the locals eat. If you have a plant or branch office in the vicinity, let your fellow employees take you to the place they like. It just might be really good.

P.B.F.: Isn’t hotel dining getting a lot better?

T.Z.: It comes and goes. Four Seasons, Ritz-Carlton and the Mandarin Orientals believe they must have a first-class  restaurant to be a first-class hotel. Some are really good deals.  Hotels will lose money on their fancy restaurants just to help prove their elevated status as luxury properties.

P.B.F.: Any specific examples?

T.Z.: The top restaurants in Vegas—almost all run by star chefs—are funded by the casino hotels to get people to come to their properties. Every chef worth his name is in Vegas.

BUSINESS ENTERTAINING

P.B.F.: Any thoughts on how to entertain business contacts?

T.Z.: It depends greatly on what you’re trying to do—impress someone, schmooze, cut a deal. You also have to think about what your clients would like—for example, how sophisticated or simple their tastes may be.

P.B.F.: How would you treat several of those different scenarios?

T.Z.: If you’re dealing with someone who’s never been to New York, you might go to the Rainbow Room or Tavern on the Green. Or maybe it’s someone impressed by steakhouses in which case you have all sorts of choices—Spark’s, Peter Luger over in Brooklyn, one of the Palms for starters.

P.B.F.: But what makes a place a business restaurant?

T.Z.: If you’re talking business, pick a restaurant where the tables are well separated. You don’t want an eavesdropper to overhear what you say and close your deal before you do.  Incidentally, more women are executives these days and a hurly-burly steakhouse may not fit.

P.B.F.: Most top restaurants sell space for business meetings—upstairs or in the cellar. For instance, the “21” club in New York. Aren’t these big profit centers for restaurants? They get $100 to $150 a person for group lunches or dinners.

T.Z.: In the fall and winter business season, yes. If you just want to party, book a place that’s lively. Some people go to places where the girls have long legs and short skirts. But I go to more sedate places.

RESTAURANT GEOGRAPHY

P.B.F.: What about restaurant differences around the United States—for instance, San Francisco, a big gourmet hub or Chicago, where portions come in heaps?

T.Z.: There are good French restaurants everywhere. But you have to look for the unique dishes or specialties you find only in a particular city. I love French food. It’s terrific. But you only find Kansas City barbecue—like Arthur Bryant’s—in KC. There’s the Sonny Bryan’s Smokehouses in Dallas and the Mansion on Turtle Creek with celebrity chef Dean Fearing and his Southwest cuisine. Cajun creole at the Commander’s Palace in New Orleans? You don’t get food like that in any other city.

P.B.F.: I think you like to eat.

T.Z.: You’ve discovered that? Chicago has German, Polish and Hungarian food that’s outstanding. In Maine you can have lobster right off the boat.

P.B.F.: What about New York?

T.Z.: Well, one specialty is deli food.

P.B.F.: I don’t like to boast about the city where I live, but I consider New York the restaurant capital of the world. Am I crazy?

T.Z.: I don’t like to be a hometown cheerleader either, but—yes—we’re the restaurant capital of the world. You can’t get such an immense variety of restaurants anywhere except in New York. We have the diversity, the quality and the depth to earn the title—albeit with a big bow to Paris, London and Tokyo for their gastronomic achievements.

THE TIPPING ISSUE

P.B.F.: I’m not going to let go of the high cost of eating out. You pay with a credit card and forget the cost until the monthly bill comes in.

T.Z.: We live in a world where the dollar means less. Everything is more than it was—remember the five-cent beer and mimeographed menus?

P.B.F.: What about the mystery of how much to tip?

T.Z.: Tips have edged up from 16 percent a few years ago to close to 19 percent. But how much you tip still depends on how good the service is.

P.B.F.: The wait staff can be formidable—out-of-work actors, menu reciters, abrupt or inattentive. And most push specials of the day—they tell you about them but never give the price unless you ask.

T.Z.: Customers shouldn’t feel put upon by the tipping dilemma.  They shouldn’t act as though they’re being judged by the waiter. It’s the other way around. You should be judging the waiter.

P.B.F.: If the service is bad, most people complain to their companions and then back off and leave the usual tip.

T.Z.: True. But don’t worry about looking like a dead beat. If you do have a waiter from hell, take it down to 10 percent. Most people haven’t ever stiffed a waiter. But in any case, tip out of self-confidence. I believe a tip is meant to “improve performance”—if not for me, at least for the next patron.

DINING OVERSEAS

P.B.F.: Any advice on dining overseas?

T.Z.: Be aware that the dollar doesn’t buy a lot these days. You may have sticker shock.

P.B.F.: How do you save money in those high-priced London and Paris restaurants?

T.Z.: If you have good friends and good guides—at the risk of being immodest, our Surveys of London, Paris and Tokyo are the best—you’ll find the right restaurant that fits your pocketbook.

P.B.F.: Any other guidelines for eating out abroad when the cheap dollar buys so little?

T.Z.: Unless you’re hosting, let your lunch or dinner companion pick up the bill. If not in football, a little fumbling at the end of the meal helps.